我的基督信仰和生活（读经笔记）

[科学养猪]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

这是越战中一个女孩潘金福的照片，她被燃烧弹所击伤，皮肤大面积烧伤。

你用你绝顶的智商想一下，你觉得你举的例子 （ 苦难人终见天日） 和我的例子（ 上百万苦难的人死去）， 是怎样的比例？

人的生命历程靠奋斗，靠机缘确实有可能改变， 不巧的是，这样的概率和你能举出的所有的例子占总人口的比例一样。

怎么讲？ 还要硬往神身上靠吗？

 

[小葡萄]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

为了避免混淆，我先说我观点，我认为没有上帝，或者上帝根本不参与任何人类活动。

因为你，FUKANG， CHRIS 等人硬要说上帝帮你不再摆地摊， 闯红灯，儿子上大学，那么我就问你上帝为什么要帮你一个摆脱贫穷的人确对要饿死的孩子不伸手？ 为什么要帮FUKANG 不闯红灯，也不愿意帮山区孩子搞双能穿的谢？

你有没有养家？如果你可以对你的孩子不伸手，如果许多人可以对自己的孩子不负责（何况别人的），那么他们凭什么质问上帝？上帝给人类的供应是足够的，但人的偷盗、掠夺、贪婪和强暴，使得有的人占有过多，有的人却陷入贫困和饥饿。还有大量的人不尽自己的责任，连自己的家人都不愿意养活。在这种情况下，谈太大的话题有点不切实际。正如有的人特别喜欢谈世界和平，喜欢质问上帝为什么有战争，可是他（她）连自己的家人都不爱，连爱自己的人都要伤害，所以对于这样的人，谈世界和平不切实际。

 

[我的梦想我的路]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

为了避免混淆，我先说我观点，我认为没有上帝，或者上帝根本不参与任何人类活动。

因为你，FUKANG， CHRIS 等人硬要说上帝帮你不再摆地摊， 闯红灯，儿子上大学，那么我就问你上帝为什么要帮你一个摆脱贫穷的人确对要饿死的孩子不伸手？ 为什么要帮FUKANG 不闯红灯，也不愿意帮山区孩子搞双能穿的谢？

猪哥 上帝忙不过来啊

 

[科学养猪]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

你用你绝顶的智商想一下，你觉得你举的例子 （ 苦难人终见天日） 和我的例子（ 上百万苦难的人死去）， 是怎样的比例？

人的生命历程靠奋斗，靠机缘确实有可能改变， 不巧的是，这样的概率和你能举出的所有的例子占总人口的比例一样。

怎么讲？ 还要硬往神身上靠吗？

所有正常思维的人都明白，你小葡萄努力勤奋，坚持不懈，又幸运遇上个好男人，来到加拿大，最终改变困境。 那个FUKANG 早晨开车情急之下踏了刹车，避免闯红灯， 哪里来的神。 你们什么都往神靠，很无聊的。

 

[科学养猪]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

你有没有养家？如果你可以对你的孩子不伸手，如果许多人可以对自己的孩子不负责（何况别人的），那么他们凭什么质问上帝？上帝给人类的供应是足够的，但人的偷盗、掠夺、贪婪和强暴，使得有的人占有过多，有的人却陷入贫困和饥饿。还有大量的人不尽自己的责任，连自己的家人都不愿意养活。在这种情况下，谈太大的话题有点不切实际。正如有的人特别喜欢谈世界和平，喜欢质问上帝为什么有战争，可是他（她）连自己的家人都不爱，连爱自己的人都要伤害，所以对于这样的人，谈世界和平不切实际。

请不要转移话题。 虽然你这段漏洞百出，但不是我们现在的焦点。 即便你上面说的全对，我是问你， 为什么上帝忽视10000个需要急切救助的人，却来帮你？ 为什么上帝早晨要在路上一路关注FUKANG终于在某个十字路口让他踩了刹车避免了一次闯红灯，而忽略同时发生的几千个儿童惨遭饿死？

 

[科学养猪]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

猪哥 上帝忙不过来啊

这就是他们基督徒的悖论。 都认为自己是上帝的眷顾，介绍工作，找女朋友都是天大的事情，祈祷说半小事，把所有亲戚朋友需要照顾的都和上帝说了，然后上帝大爱，统统答应了。 成千上万的儿童饿死，上帝不闻不问，却热心关系你们七大姨父，八大姑的破事？

 

[小葡萄]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

你用你绝顶的智商想一下，你觉得你举的例子 （ 苦难人终见天日） 和我的例子（ 上百万苦难的人死去）， 是怎样的比例？

人的生命历程靠奋斗，靠机缘确实有可能改变， 不巧的是，这样的概率和你能举出的所有的例子占总人口的比例一样。

怎么讲？ 还要硬往神身上靠吗？

罪和死是所有人必须承受的，罪恶必然带来疾病和死亡。所以上帝来，是要解决罪恶的问题，而不是治标不治本。罗马书第五章说的很清楚，因为罪籍着亚当来到了世界，所以罪和死的后果，所有人都需要尝，或多或少。但是今世并不是终局，终局在于审判以后的永生。

对于贫穷，我也说过了，不是一种因素。如果上帝给人100斤粮食，那么他邻居把这粮食抢去了，这个人饥饿的原因就是那个抢劫犯。至于上帝会否制止这种罪恶？不能一概而论说都会制止，也不能说都不制止。如果这个被抢的人曾经也抢过别人，那么上帝允许他被抢是对他的报应。如果这个人没有欺负过别人，那么上帝允许他被抢，还可能给予他另外的供应。如果他是一个义人，曾经在别人有需要时供给别人，那么他有求于上帝时，上帝也会供应给他。如果他是一个罪人，虽然没有抢过别人，但是他从来对上帝不感恩，认为什么都是靠自己，他也不求上帝。那么上帝可能允许他饥饿。如果他是一个无辜的孩子，被人遗弃或者伤害，导致饥饿或伤痛甚至死亡的状况，那么这个时候上帝可能通过人来帮助他，也可能直接帮助他，也可能让他死去。对于前两种情况，因为这个人已经受到帮助，大多数人都会认为天经地义，不会感谢上帝。对于后一种情况，大多数人都会责怪上帝，而不会责怪伤害这些孩子的人。但是上帝允许无辜者被害，是要人看到罪恶的结果和代价。并且所有义人和无辜的人都会复活，所有这些无辜的义人和孩子，并没有真正死去，他们会在末世复活。

 

[小葡萄]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

你用你绝顶的智商想一下，你觉得你举的例子 （ 苦难人终见天日） 和我的例子（ 上百万苦难的人死去）， 是怎样的比例？

人的生命历程靠奋斗，靠机缘确实有可能改变， 不巧的是，这样的概率和你能举出的所有的例子占总人口的比例一样。

怎么讲？ 还要硬往神身上靠吗？

你忽略了现在正在享福的、活着的亿万人口，包括你自己。你没遭多少罪，活在加拿大，却老是抱怨上帝。那个被燃烧弹烧伤的女孩潘金福，却是基督徒，她赞美上帝。所以决定人和上帝关系的不是环境，而是你的内心。

 

[科学养猪]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

请不要转移话题。 虽然你这段漏洞百出，但不是我们现在的焦点。 即便你上面说的全对，我是问你， 为什么上帝忽视10000个需要急切救助的人，却来帮你？ 为什么上帝早晨要在路上一路关注FUKANG终于在某个十字路口让他踩了刹车避免了一次闯红灯，而忽略同时发生的几千个儿童惨遭饿死？

你会不会在你老公发烧40度时候要你倒杯水给他喝喝的时候，你说你要到SHOPPER DRUGMART 买只打折的口红比较重要优先？

 

[科学养猪]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

你忽略了现在正在享福的活着的亿万人口，包括你自己。

这个事世界，适者生存，靠努力和机缘改变命运。 永远是10％的人占据TOP 10％的资源， 你家上帝怎么努力，怎么大爱，怎么公正都无法改变这数据，你就别硬撑了吧。

 

[小葡萄]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

这个事世界，适者生存，靠努力和机缘改变命运。 永远是10％的人占据TOP 10％的资源， 你家上帝怎么努力，怎么大爱，怎么公正都无法改变这数据，你就别硬撑了吧。

既然你认为适者生存，还替那些死去的弱者喊什么冤？还替那些受欺压的弱者喊什么冤？如果适者生存，共产党压迫老百姓也是理所应当，你又有什么不服气的？如果适者生存符合你的逻辑，上帝剿灭罪人也是理所应当，你又有什么不服气的？

 

[科学养猪]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

所有这些无辜的义人和孩子，并没有真正死去，他们会在末世复活。

无辜的义人和孩子？ 好，无辜的学佛者， 伊斯兰教无辜的孩子，会不会被拯救？ 一辈子做好事的无神论者，会不会复活？

 

[科学养猪]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

既然你认为适者生存，还替那些死去的弱者喊什么冤？还替那些受欺压的弱者喊什么冤？如果适者生存，共产党压迫老百姓也是理所应当，你又有什么不服气的？如果适者生存符合你的逻辑，上帝剿灭罪人也是理所应当，你有什么不服气的？

是啊， 既然上帝残暴对待人类，我骂他个狗血喷头有什么关系？ 我骂他丧尽天良有什么不可以，他做的出灭绝的事，难倒还不许我骂啊？ 我真奇怪了，你居然提暴君说话？

 

[小葡萄]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

无辜的义人和孩子？ 好，无辜的学佛者， 伊斯兰教无辜的孩子，会不会被拯救？ 一辈子做好事的无神论者，会不会复活？

一辈子无神论的人不可能一辈子做好事。再说了，无神论者的道德观抽象而善变，什么才是好坏？

 

[小葡萄]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

是啊， 既然上帝残暴对待人类，我骂他个狗血喷头有什么关系？ 我骂他丧尽天良有什么不可以，他做的出灭绝的事，难倒还不许我骂啊？ 我真奇怪了，你居然提暴君说话？

是你残暴对待上帝，不是上帝残暴对待人类。你既然认定适者生存，道德观念有什么价值？认为适者生存的人讨论道德是自我矛盾的，真正的适者生存的人，没有善恶、对错的概念。

 

[科学养猪]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

一辈子无神论的人不可能一辈子做好事。再说了，无神论者的道德观抽象而善变，什么才是好坏？

你是不是认为，你要比任何一个无神论者都会有个更好的结局？ 你将夺取任何一个无神论者，不信基督者的天堂门票？包括他们？

 

[小葡萄]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

潘金福现在还活着，战后她先后从越南到了古巴，后来移居加拿大，并结婚生子。图中，她的伤疤依然存在，但是她的人生并没有因此被摧毁。下面是她的照片。

继续谈潘金福，她虽然历经磨难，还是在摸索中找到了真理，信从了基督，并且饶恕了向他们村扔炸弹的人。她心中不再有苦毒，而是充满对上帝的感恩。下面这篇是潘金福写的文章，谈论她的信仰历程。

Kim Phuc – A Picture of Peace

Why me? Why did I live? Ten years after napalm scorched her body the answer changed her life.

by Emily Wierenga
Her name may not ring a bell, but no one can forget the haunting Pulitzer Prize winning picture; the one that plastered the world with guilt and shame, helped to catalyze ceasefire in Vietnam, and ultimately brought America to its knees.

Kim Phuc
Photograph by Nick Ut, The Associated Press.

Phan Thi Kim Phuc is “the girl in the picture” – the one snapped arbitrarily by Associated Press photographer Nick Ut as he watched the screaming naked girl flee with her cousins and friends from the flames enveloping their village. As Ut dropped his camera and rushed the nine-year-old to safety, he little knew he was sparing the world future warfare.

This traumatic scene riveted hearts worldwide and rendered the Vietnam War meaningless; it also sparked something inside the dying Phuc, who would later become the UN Goodwill Ambassador for Peace.

Born to a tight-knit, wealthy family in Trang Bang, Vietnam, Kim describes her childhood as a happy one. “The only pain I knew was falling off my bicycle,” she laughs. Unfortunately, her unsuspecting village was located on Route 1, a supply road between Saigon and Phnom Penh. Later, when asked why they bombed Trang Bang, the pilots responded, “It was in the way.”

Kim says she hadn’t known fear until the moment the bomb incinerated everything familiar to her.
Defined by Wikipedia as “jellied gasoline,” napalm is used in flamethrowers and bombs by the US and Allied forces to increase effectiveness of flammable liquids.

“Napalm is the most terrible pain you can imagine,” describes Kim. “Water boils at 100 degrees Celsius. Napalm generates temperatures of 800 to 1,200 degrees Celsius.”
With the gasoline eating away at her skin, forming third-degree burns, the young girl wasn’t expected to live. Yet 14 months of hospitalization and 17 surgeries later, Kim returned home, “hoping to be a normal kid again.”

Nevertheless, the true scars were only beginning to form. Dedicated to schooling, Kim poured herself into her studies and quickly caught up with her classmates. Her ultimate goal was to become a doctor. Yet, after being accepted into medicine in 1982, the Vietnamese government claimed the rights to Kim as a “National Symbol of War,” forcing her to leave school and return to her province unless otherwise instructed.
“I only wanted to escape that picture,” she describes. “I wanted to forget that ever happened. But they wanted everyone to remember.” Hundreds of interviews world-wide ensued with royalty, prime ministers, presidents, as well as roles in propaganda films.

“The question I always asked was, ‘Why me? Why did this happen to me?’” she tells Faith Today. “I was living with anger, with bitterness, and I saw my life as a burden. I hated my life. I didn’t want to live anymore.”

However, as crocuses spring from mud, so seeds of faith were planted during Kim’s darkest hours. “Deep down in my heart I really wanted to find the truth and the meaning behind why I suffered, and why that little girl was still alive. And, thank God, I got all that answered when I was 19.”

Due to her inability to attend school, Kim engrossed herself in the library. It was there that she came upon the Bible. “I couldn’t stop reading it.” Her curiosity drove her to church, where “I heard the Gospel explained to me for the first time. The love of God changed my life. I knew that Jesus died on the cross and paid for my sins. So I asked God, ‘Do you forgive me?’”

From that point on, her cry was no longer, “Why me?” but, “Please help me.”
Kim says, “My life was like a cup of coffee. Very dark: with hatred, anger, bitterness, sorrow…” After reading the Bible, she asked God, “How can I clean everything in my heart if it’s full of coffee?” The answer, she explains, was in letting her cup be poured out every day, “until it became empty and God spilled His love into my cup.”
As she turned into an overflowing vessel of love for others, Kim says she garnered spiritual gifts: “peace, wisdom, patience, then compassion.”

In spite of her dire circumstances, the young “National Symbol of War” was able to trust God to make things right for her. And He did.

In 1986, Kim was granted leave to Cuba where she engaged in English and Spanish studies. It was there that she met fellow Vietnamese student, Bui Huy Toan, who later became her husband.

Kim receives a cartoon version of her story. Telling children about the damage caused by wars, and the incredible opportunity we have to help children around the world who become innocent victims of war, is very dear to Kim's heart.
Photo: KIM Foundation International

Kim’s pain persisted, this time in the form of diabetes. Despite her studies being once again cut short, she continued to trust and obey.

“As soon as I became a Christian, the number one thing for me was prayer,” the 43-year-old relates. “But the secret is, when I pray, I believe. I have no doubts about it. I just find joy in the middle of trouble.”
Still tormented by governmental fingers in her back, Kim seized a chance at freedom en route to Cuba after honeymooning in Moscow.

When the plane stopped to refuel in Gander, Newfoundland, the newlywed couple defected and settled near Toronto, Ontario. With nothing more than the clothes on their backs and faith in their hearts, they slowly began to create a life of their own. A life of freedom.

For the next few years, Kim (now a mother of two boys and a member of Faith Way Baptist Church in Ajax, Ontario) avoided the public eye, scarred by previous over-exposure. Yet in 1996, she welcomed the opportunity to speak at the Veteran’s Day ceremonies in Washington, DC, in honour of Vietnam.
She proceeded to stand before the soldiers who had destroyed her home country, and express forgiveness for what they’d done.

After all, “they need peace – to live with true love and hope,” she explains.
“I am not involved in politics or religion. I just let them know it’s about the love of God and the love of people. That is more powerful than any weapon of war.”

During her visit to the Memorial, Kim met – and fully embraced – one of the pilots who had actually bombed her village. She assured the shattered man of her forgiveness, to which he responded, “This is the happiest day of my life.”
Now, Kim says with a smile, “We’re best friends! That’s true reconciliation.”

It was also in Washington that the Kim Foundation was conceived, as a result of Kim’s meeting with Ron Gibbs, a Vietnam veteran, and a member of the Board of Directors for the Memorial Fund. Kim and Gibbs shared common experiences and desires for the future, which in turn spawned the foundation.
Then, in 1997, UNESCO named Kim a Goodwill Ambassador for Peace. When asked how she weaves her faith into this position, Kim responds, “I do a very simple thing. I share my testimony. I offer my life to them, to the people, wherever I go.”

No longer is she bitter over the events of yester-year. Instead, she remarks:
“Had it not been for the war, I would not value peace.
“Had it not been for pain, I would not know the healing power of love.
“Had it not been for hatred, I would never have learned to forgive.
“Had it not been for imprisonment, I would not value freedom.
“Had it not been for living in want, I would not value everything I have.
“Had it not been for fear, I would not value peace.”
Once a National Symbol of War, Kim Phuc has become a symbol of forgiveness. Once ‘the girl in the picture,’ she is now a picture of peace.
Emily Wierenga is a freelance writer in Edmonton, Alberta.
http://www.evangelicalfellowship.ca/Page.aspx?pid=4998&srcid=5358
http://www.newdaynews.com/women/index.cgi/noframes/read/1427

 

[小葡萄]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

你是不是认为，你要比任何一个无神论者都会有个更好的结局？ 你将夺取任何一个无神论者，不信基督者的天堂门票？包括他们？

天堂的门票没有限额，我为什么要夺取他人的门票？我不是加尔文主义者，只有加尔文主义者才相信门票预定论。

 

[科学养猪]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

是你残暴对待上帝，不是上帝残暴对待人类。你既然认定适者生存，道德观念有什么价值？认为适者生存的人讨论道德是自我矛盾的，真正的适者生存的人，没有善恶、对错的概念。

我说了， 根本没有你说的这个上帝概念。 你一定要说有上帝， 而且参与人类活动，但是你又说不出上帝的救助标准和优先准则，所有证明你的理论是错误的，根本不是这样一回事情。

 

[科学养猪]

回复: 对基督信仰的思考和讨论

天堂的门票没有限额，我为什么要夺取他人的门票？我不是加尔文主义者，只有加尔文主义者才相信门票预定论。

那么他们去不去天堂？